24/7 Bridges.

User avatar
Lemonater47
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:50 pm

24/7 Bridges.

Post by Lemonater47 » Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:06 pm

Your 24/7 Bridges is a detriment to the community as a whole. Here's why.

Bridges is a map people either like or hate. So it gets a few people on it. So then a person who doesn't like the map comes along. They see the only server is bridges with about 20 players on it. No RO2 for them today. Another server gets populated. But the population stays low on that too because you got a bunch of people on the bridges server. When Bridges is often voted on the other servers anyway. So the game feels more empty. People don't have a very good gaming experience which Ultimately leads to less people playing.

Your bridges server has never broken 32 players and that's a fact.

You may say that its because of new games coming out for there being less playing. But if that were the case wouldn't other regions be suffering too? On gametracker Australian servers used to be on the first or second page. Now they are on the third and fourth page. Ever since Skankyflat came along with it's bridges server.

I highly Recommend shutting down the 24/7 bridges server as it was not needed and it's harming the oceanic community as a whole. The community isn't big enough. The Americans can get away with it. We can't. Needs to be gone.

User avatar
FlakSabbath
Site Admin
Posts: 270
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:41 am
Location: CTF Server somewhere..
Contact:

Re: 24/7 Bridges.

Post by FlakSabbath » Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:36 pm

Hmmmm Bridges has only been up for a week?? It's already overtaking most of the other servers rank wise?
I hear what you are saying sort of, but don't see the need for it to be gone personally? It was put up as a test as Bridges was the most voted for map by a long shot...
I was going to add Mykoshka river to it as well depending on useage.
Thanks for your thoughts, we are monitoring it currently.

One or two RO2 servers my disappear long term once SQUAD is released in a couple of weeks.

User avatar
Lemonater47
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:50 pm

Re: 24/7 Bridges.

Post by Lemonater47 » Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:55 pm

I look at statistics. Since that bridges server came up everything went downhill for the community as a whole.

If you look at map stats for servers that have been around a whole Bridges doesn't have 20% of the play time. Top 5 at times. But often not even in that.

What matters is the players. Not who's server is doing the best. And as far as I'm concerned all the servers are doing bad now. You had Australian servers in the top 16 before skankyflat even hosted RO2 servers. It's not that skankyflat has moved up in the ranks. It's that Skankyflat has dragged the other servers down to it's level.

Ask any vet in the community. Majority would say the same as me. I want the community back to what it was. Or at least closer. Removing the bridges 24/7 server is a great start to that.

User avatar
VALOUR
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:53 pm
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Re: 24/7 Bridges.

Post by VALOUR » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:48 am

Lemonater47 wrote:I look at statistics. Since that bridges server came up everything went downhill for the community as a whole.

If you look at map stats for servers that have been around a whole Bridges doesn't have 20% of the play time. Top 5 at times. But often not even in that.

What matters is the players. Not who's server is doing the best. And as far as I'm concerned all the servers are doing bad now. You had Australian servers in the top 16 before skankyflat even hosted RO2 servers. It's not that skankyflat has moved up in the ranks. It's that Skankyflat has dragged the other servers down to it's level.

Ask any vet in the community. Majority would say the same as me. I want the community back to what it was. Or at least closer. Removing the bridges 24/7 server is a great start to that.
I think your criticism is warranted to a degree, and for that reason bridges has been taken down; however, operating servers is quite often about what the players want, and it seemed pretty clear to me that bridges was a popular server because people wanted to play that map. Yes, they could have played it on the standard RO2 server by voting for it, and many did, but the bridges server was popular. I think the issue was it was dragging many players away from the normal RO2 server with mixed maps, which resulted in a sharp decline in activity on that server.

To say that Skankyflat has dragged other servers down to it's level is totally unjustified, and that statement really doesn't appear to have any factual basis. There are a selection of ISP and community based servers and no one is forcing anyone to play on any of them; it's players choice. Players will play where the like, and the standard RO2 and RS servers operated here are no different to the servers operated elsewhere (with the exception of bridges which is now offline). I don't believe Skanyflat servers have dragged anything down, they are the same as the others.

There are things that encourage players; variety, activity and responsible administration. Our RO2 server is the highest ranked RO2 server in Australia last time I checked; this server offers all RO2 maps, has good patronage from the community and a dedicated admin that gives up a LOT of free time to ensure that things are running ok and that people aren't being idiots and ruining the game for others (yes, that's me and I am happy to do what I do). We have had no complaints about the server or how it's run. We listen to suggestions from the community and try new things to accommodate the community when we feel it may be of benefit. Example is that now a campaign server has been setup after a few players mentioned they thought it would be a good thing. We'll give it a try, if it doesn't get much use, we'll rip it down.

I really don't see how our servers have dragged any others down. We do what we do, and the others do what they do; where the players go is their choice, and no one is forcing anyone to play in any particular place. When you talk of community, it appears as though you are talking about a loosely based group of players, most of whom have no clan affiliations, are not organised into any teams and don't compete in any competition type play (that I'm aware of.) Rather than dragging that group of players down, we have sought to listen to them and act accordingly. We have even been advertising a ladder comp that we have been seeking teams for; thus far, no takers; so the community you refer to doesn't appear to be a solid organised group, we'd like it to be so, but the community now is small and to muster those players into clans/teams would be a feat. We'd love to see that of course, but I for one am a realist and understand that is unlikely for a number of reasons, not least of which is that there are many much newer games out there competing for the attention of gamers. RO2 is a bit old now and just doesn't have the player numbers to be a major concern.

At the end of the day, players will choose what they want. They will find the servers they like and play on them. If the servers are not to your liking, don't join them. We DO listen to the community and we DO try to accommodate because we are passionate about gaming, and doing whatever we can to build stronger online communities. The more the merrier!

If you have specific suggestions about what you think we can do better, I'm sure Sabbath would love to hear them, I know I certainly would.

Peace. :d

Oh and Sabbath, SIGN ME UP FOR ANYTHING TO DO WITH SQUAD. With my experience I can teach those new to that type of game a thing or two.

Image
NOS VEREOR HAUD HOSTILIS
TS3: ts3.ocbservers.net
Web: ocb.net.au

User avatar
Lemonater47
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:50 pm

Re: 24/7 Bridges.

Post by Lemonater47 » Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:38 am

Skankyflat came along and upset the balance of everything. Skankyflat being well known in some other games meant that people joined it. It split the community a bit. Which meant that rankings of all australian servers went down. Rankings haven't been that low at all. 2 months ago they were sticking their heads Into the top 16. For years. As for years there was only 2 providers people trusted. Which are also both well admined servers run by dedicated individuals. Yes even the ISP one.

That's expected from a new provider leaping into the fray with more servers. However 24/7 bridges isn't a great idea. Surely you would know that bridges is the map that people complain about the most. Bridges with anything less than 32 people is also not fun. That particular server saw player numbers as a whole drop for the above stated reason. If the community didn't have the player number where was the logic behind throwing in 4 more servers?

Ask any vet. 24/7 bridges is a bad idea.


On the community you are a bit detached from the veterens of RO. The oceanic veterns are a tight group and there are 3 main clans. And they have scrims every now and again. Was one last week. They even have reserves. There was even a community vs community event not long ago. Aussie/NZ vs Banzai. Games.on.net and Aussie/NZ looked to provide servers that didn't clash with each other. Aussie/NZ did has a whole bunch of custom content and hardcore server settings whole ganes.on.net experimented with 50 players and found that people liked the slightly lower player limit so it's less of a clusterfuck. As a large complaint was that 64 players can get a little busy and gridlocked (partially due to server limits not actually working)


A ladder Comp. I never saw that advertisement. Anywhere. Like where did you advertise that lol. I frequent both the steam forums and tripwire forums for this game and never saw it there. Didn't see it on RO2league.com either. No takers because nobody knew about it.

Get into the community a bit more. How many veterens do you actually know? Nobody seems know you.

Anyway kill bridges. As that's killing the community.

A campaign server would be nice though. You apparently have one but I've never actually see it in the server browser. You sure it's ranked? Also turn speed hack detection off. It's the unreal engine speed hack detection that was in a couple of builds of UE3. It works by detecting the slighest change in speed then acting on it. Where as proper anti hack software actually looks for hacks. So if the server caughs a bit everyone lags and has a chance of being kicked. Also you can't play in a server with that enabled if you have wifi. Packet loss. So yeah turn that off VAcCand punkbuster is enough. On the topic of punkbuster your servers also have the strange tendancy of kicking everyone off the server due to an "invalid packet". Never saw that before. Asked TWI about it. They said it eventually means your server lagged so bad that the game didn't have a clue what to do and so as a safety measure before things got worse kicks everyone to the main menu. Something to do with protection against corrupt stats. Anyway skankyflat servers do that.

The community will welcome skankyflat if it integrated itself into the community a bit more. Games.on.net used to be hated by all the vets. But they got a new admin. Things improved drastically.

User avatar
FlakSabbath
Site Admin
Posts: 270
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:41 am
Location: CTF Server somewhere..
Contact:

Re: 24/7 Bridges.

Post by FlakSabbath » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:31 am

Look I have no issues with taking the Bridges server down, if it is indeed killing the community ;)

I stuck it up on a whim, purely as I have a lot of spare dedicated server resources currently, and wanted to push the box a bit harder...
Also was curious as to just how many people wanted to play Bridges only....

I might swap it over to a Pacific Campaign server or similar in the meantime, and will use the resources for a squad server when it finally launches.

Bear in mind here, I dont really give a toss about server rankings on Gametracker, I am just trying to provide a broad base of servers and game types for people to play....
If they get used, awesome! If they dont, I am not losing anything...

There are a number of games launching shortly with the Xmas season nearly upon us, and more in the early part of next year, so plan to use some resources running servers for some of these...
So the RO2 server will probably drop back to 2 only at that time...

Your thoughts are appreciated Lemonater, but maybe try to come across as sounding less Anti.... Sticking a server up doesn't kill a community if the community is tight knit....
None of this is about love, kudos or any of that... or trying to kill a community..

roll on SQUAD!!!

User avatar
VALOUR
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:53 pm
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Re: 24/7 Bridges.

Post by VALOUR » Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:31 am

Lemonater47 wrote:Skankyflat came along and upset the balance of everything. Skankyflat being well known in some other games meant that people joined it. It split the community a bit. Which meant that rankings of all australian servers went down. Rankings haven't been that low at all. 2 months ago they were sticking their heads Into the top 16. For years. As for years there was only 2 providers people trusted. Which are also both well admined servers run by dedicated individuals. Yes even the ISP one.
Like Sabbath said, rankings aren't a big deal, and so really cares about the rankings leveling out if new servers come online. Isn't it better to have more choice?
Lemonater47 wrote:That's expected from a new provider leaping into the fray with more servers. However 24/7 bridges isn't a great idea. Surely you would know that bridges is the map that people complain about the most. Bridges with anything less than 32 people is also not fun. That particular server saw player numbers as a whole drop for the above stated reason. If the community didn't have the player number where was the logic behind throwing in 4 more servers?

Ask any vet. 24/7 bridges is a bad idea.
People complain about bridges? Is that why there were regularly 30+ players in the server? Clearly those players wanted to play that map, and they weren't complaining about bridges at all. I was watching the player numbers in all servers over that time, and to say that player numbers overall dropped because of the bridges server is, to be quite honest, bullshit. Other servers were still getting used, it just seemed that the player base had shifted a little to the bridges server and not so much on the others, but the player numbers themselves didn't change. I think maybe, and it's just a maybe, that you're upset because the servers YOU like were not getting the same patronage. Perhaps a case of sour grapes? Adding more servers wasn't done to damage anyone's feeling of supremacy, I fail to see how providing more game servers is a bad thing...
Lemonater47 wrote:On the community you are a bit detached from the veterens of RO. The oceanic veterns are a tight group and there are 3 main clans. And they have scrims every now and again. Was one last week. They even have reserves. There was even a community vs community event not long ago. Aussie/NZ vs Banzai. Games.on.net and Aussie/NZ looked to provide servers that didn't clash with each other. Aussie/NZ did has a whole bunch of custom content and hardcore server settings whole ganes.on.net experimented with 50 players and found that people liked the slightly lower player limit so it's less of a clusterfuck. As a large complaint was that 64 players can get a little busy and gridlocked (partially due to server limits not actually working)


A ladder Comp. I never saw that advertisement. Anywhere. Like where did you advertise that lol. I frequent both the steam forums and tripwire forums for this game and never saw it there. Didn't see it on RO2league.com either. No takers because nobody knew about it.
Funny what you say about the community being tight knit, and not that I don't accept that, but the MAJORITY of players appear to have no clan affiliation. I have asked tagged members of clans about their groups, and never ONCE got a response. Perhaps they are too important to talk to mere plebs like me. As for advertising, it's on the Skanky site, and the MOTD (which appears no one reads). I have also spoken to a large number of players in servers about it, with little to no interest because, again the MAJORITY of them did not have a clan connection at all.
Lemonater47 wrote:Get into the community a bit more. How many veterens do you actually know? Nobody seems know you.
I am in the community, I am an admin for the Skanky servers, I play a lot, I talk to a lot of players, I don't see the need to try and go and get into 'the community' more. Has that community made any attempts to get into what we are doing here more? No, they haven't. As for veterans, would they be the ones that I have said hello to in our servers without getting a reply? Elitism does seem to be an issue, but that's just my assumption. Elitism in gaming communities leads to alienation of those who engage in it, and a serious lack of new players to ANY game because they don't feel welcomed by the community. You may view things differently, but consider how that community you refer to is viewed from an outsider's perspective... The fact that no one seems to know me is of no concern to me at all. There are a stack of people from a wide range of games that know me very well, and I'm a leader of some game communities in Australia. I have been online gaming since 1996, but again, I'm not concerned if one small community doesn't know who I am, I have nothing to prove to anyone.
Lemonater47 wrote:Anyway kill bridges. As that's killing the community.
I don't agree. It may be causing a player shift to some degree, but how is having more people playing on a particular server killing a community? Bridges seemed to be to fill a gap. If it's popular and players want it, they will use it, and they did. Just because your opinion is that less than 32 players on bridges makes for a crap game doesn't mean that people are going to agree with you. I've had some cracker games on the bridges server, and a stack of thanks from MANY players for putting the server up. My only concern with bridges was that our other servers were being under utilised, but again, if people are playing the game, how is that a bad thing?
Lemonater47 wrote:A campaign server would be nice though. You apparently have one but I've never actually see it in the server browser. You sure it's ranked? Also turn speed hack detection off. It's the unreal engine speed hack detection that was in a couple of builds of UE3. It works by detecting the slighest change in speed then acting on it. Where as proper anti hack software actually looks for hacks. So if the server caughs a bit everyone lags and has a chance of being kicked. Also you can't play in a server with that enabled if you have wifi. Packet loss. So yeah turn that off VAcCand punkbuster is enough. On the topic of punkbuster your servers also have the strange tendancy of kicking everyone off the server due to an "invalid packet". Never saw that before. Asked TWI about it. They said it eventually means your server lagged so bad that the game didn't have a clue what to do and so as a safety measure before things got worse kicks everyone to the main menu. Something to do with protection against corrupt stats. Anyway skankyflat servers do that.
We have two campaign servers up, they are both in the server browser and have been getting some good use. It is ranked. We'll look at the speed detection issue, which does pop up from time to time. As for PB kicking people off our servers for "Invalid packet", never seen it happen. Maybe it's more due to client end issues?
Lemonater47 wrote:The community will welcome skankyflat if it integrated itself into the community a bit more. Games.on.net used to be hated by all the vets. But they got a new admin. Things improved drastically.
Skanky flat IS a community. Inter-community communication and cooperation is a two way street. We are trying to support the wider community with what we are doing, and don't want to damage anything already in place, and I don't think we are doing that. Prior to your gripe, we'd had zero complaints from anyone about our servers or how they were run. Skanky RO/RS has a new admin, no complaints (other than the tards that get dealt with for stupidity - and they are few). I'd say, and it's juts my opinion, that I'm doing an ok job. Since coming in board here, player numbers have increased, players seem happy and they appreciate the effort put into what we are doing. I hope that things overall improve for ALL players regardless of who they tie themselves to, and not just for this game, but for all.

BRING ON SQUAD!
NOS VEREOR HAUD HOSTILIS
TS3: ts3.ocbservers.net
Web: ocb.net.au

User avatar
FlakSabbath
Site Admin
Posts: 270
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:41 am
Location: CTF Server somewhere..
Contact:

Re: 24/7 Bridges.

Post by FlakSabbath » Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:49 am

Speed detection sorted on most servers, will wait for the others to empty before restarting the last 2.... Then speed hack detection will be off ;)

Long term I plan to add another Dedicated box to the line up, but thats a few months away possibly....

Everyones thoughts and opinions are valid, and appreciated, as thats part of being a community aye... We only want to provide people with a community, and give people options on where and what they can play.
If anyone has a request for a game server they would like to see up, there is a requests section for that, I am happy to stick anything up pretty much, that you can get access to the files for.

Currently the dedi box hovers between 20-25% CPU useage in peak times, so still a fair bit of headroom on it... It still has 16gb of free ram as well... So the box is not being pushed at all.
May add some SSD's to the unit to make map loading times etc zippy, but all in the pipeline stuff, Rome was not built in a day :)

User avatar
Lemonater47
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:50 pm

Re: 24/7 Bridges.

Post by Lemonater47 » Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:38 pm

30 players every couple of days doesn't mean popular lol. Yes it always has players on it. That was the issue. It never got full. Becuase people were turned off from seeing bridges as the only server with players on it.

As I said it's a map you either love or hate. The ones who all liked the map were there. The ones who didn't like it didn't have a choice and simply left. It could be 9pm and you'll find 20 people on the bridges server and that was it. Everyone went off to arma 3 instead. What about new players or the casuals. What sort of experiance would they have. One 50 minute round which just means the attackers get slaughtered for the duration of that time. As it needs to be full to play that map.

And no it's not bullshit. Look at the graphs. Player numbers went down because of bridges and I explained the reasons as to why. If it were truely popular wouldn't the server be full, or at least half full once. Never was. 30 people is nothing to brag about. 64 people is. And if there were 64 people in there regulary then we wouldn't have a problem.

If you were in the community people would know who you were valour. But you're a bit hostile and get all defensive. So I don't know if people would want to know who you are. Don't expect to the community to come running to you. You gotta go out and Introduce yourself. You can be the devil and still change to be a well liked and influential member of the community. It's happened before. As the vets, the level 80+ players either don't know you or only know you by this thread and that hilariously handled ban appeal thread.

If games.on.net managed it skankyflat.net can manage it too. Go out and say hi rather than saying hi to whoever join your servers. Take it from me. Doesn't work.

User avatar
VALOUR
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:53 pm
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Re: 24/7 Bridges.

Post by VALOUR » Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:06 pm

Clearly, we are at odds when it comes to opinion. I don't share your opinions, and you've ignored mine. I've taken on board what you've said, acknowledged it and responded. Life is pretty boring if everyone just agrees with you, and it's through the expressing of opinions that greater things come into being.

I'm not disliked, nor a devil. I am a well liked and influential member of gaming communities, just because I'm not well known in the tiny RO community means jack. I play the game, I like it, I help out; sorry that isn't to your liking I do not feel the need to run to others to seek approval or big note myself. I am not seeking to be a 'community leader', or build any empires. I'm not being hostile or defensive either, I'm expressing my take on things, you don't like it and you assume this means I'm evil ogre. You can think what you like, doesn't bother me one bit. I'll still be here playing with those that want to play on the Skanky servers and enjoying myself; that is after all, what gaming is about. If you take it too seriously (and I think perhaps you do), then that's your issue, not mine.

You seem to think that Skankyflat is a sub standard community to games.on.net, and no doubt much smaller. if that doesn't suit you, the solution is simple. Don't play here. You come here and put shit on what we are doing, and pretty much demand we change our servers to suit you; and I remind you that you're the only one who has complained. Others have complained that the bridges server is offline. You state that if the servers were full "we" wouldn't have a problem. Firstly, who is "we" and secondly if you consider a half full server to be a failure, then again, that is a matter of opinion. For such an old game and such a small community, I think that's quite ok. There are plenty of empty servers out there that get far less use than that. Do you hound them about it? And I don't recall "bragging" about 30+ players, I believe I was simply stating a fact. Again, if you don't like it, play somewhere else. You wouldn't sit and watch a TV show that you didn't like; you don't call the TV station and tell them it's shit and demand they take the show off the air, you simply change the channel.

And thanks for the advice about saying hi to people on other servers; I do it often. I have my own gaming community with 100+ official members, 10 servers and plenty to keep me busy. if I am a member of this community, and an admin here, it is common sense that I am going to spend the majority of my time in these servers. That's just a no brainer.

Now I think all that can be said on this has been said. You and I don't agree and I'm fine with that. Seems you'd like to ensure you have the final word, so I'll let you do that by not responding to any future post you make on this thread. I'm sure that will make you happy and feel as though you've achieved something. Enjoy that feeling!

:d
NOS VEREOR HAUD HOSTILIS
TS3: ts3.ocbservers.net
Web: ocb.net.au

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest